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In 1981, the Golan Heights, including the Shebaa Farms, were annexed by Israel, a move only recognized by the United States. Israel considers it part of the Golan Heights ++++AND++++ continues to hold it, along with the Golan, under military occupation.
please add the word 'AND' above, or whatever is required. Wikiqrdl (talk) 22:59, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Given that Israel annexed the Golan Heights (including the Shebaa farms), I think it's incorrect to say the area is under "military occupation", the way that the West Bank is. It's a territory in dispute, yes, but not under occupation. Jeb1075 (talk) 20:25, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Original:
Attacks by Hezbollah
Between 2000 and 2005, Hezbollah attacked the IDF at Shebaa/Har Dov 33 times, resulting in seven Israeli soldiers killed in action, three taken prisoner, and dozens wounded.[24]
On 26 April 2024, an Israeli Bedouin truck driver was killed at Har Dov during infrastructure works as a result of an anti-missile strike by Hezbollah.[25][26]
I have reverted the recent edits by @GreekParadise. The changes were striking, and in the lede, and were not backed up by the sources in the article. I have left a note on the user's talk page, but thought I'd clarify here for others who saw the reversion.
For example, the BBC article used as a ref contradicts the new text and supports the old: "Syria agrees with Lebanon that the Shebaa farms area is part of Lebanon." It does include a comment by someone at the UN that the farms should be considered in Syria, but that should be attributed, and not said in Wikivoice.
The Palestine-Israel Journal is quoted multiple times for the same argument, making it WP:UNDUE. The UN link is broken. The PDF linked backs up much the same account as the text that was altered with the subsequent edits.
Right, claims like "the Syrian government has never agreed the land is Lebanese" are simply false. Although Syria has not shown any urgency for a formal border demarcation with Lebanon, the public position of the government since 2000 has been that the SF are Lebanese. Look at Syrian state media for the current position. This article is one I have been meaning to completely revise with better sources. But I'm a slow editor... Zerotalk02:56, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Respectfully, Zero is incorrect when he says the Syrian government agrees the land is Lebanese. There is NO evidence from ANY Syrian source that Syria has EVER declared the Shebaa Farms to not be Syrian. If there is such evidence, please show it! All I've seen is a BBC claim that the UN claims than an unnamed Syrian official anonymously said so even though all the maps and official statements show it to be Syrian or refuse to say.
Zero says, for example, that the Syrian News Agency claims Shebaa Farms is in Lebanon. In fact that source makes clear Shebaa TOWN is in Lebanon, but not the Shebaa Farms. (Shebaa Town is in Lebanon as Syria, Israel, Lebanon, and the UN agree.) We know it's Shebaa Town that SANA is referring to, not just because it says so, but because Israel has never shelled its own territory in the Golan. It has shelled Lebanese territory.
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The main problem I have with the lede is it's untrue.
"Lebanon claims the Shebaa farms as its own territory" is untrue because it suggests this was always the Lebanese position, when in fact, it's a recent Hezbollah position.
"Syria agrees with this position" is also untrue in that the Syrian government and its president have never stated this. That the BBC 24 years ago claimed this without citing a single Syrian official -- while admitting that the UN and Syria have it on Syrian maps -- is simply not a reputable source.
In fact, the Syrian President has made clear it is Syrian territory in private and publicly refuses to take a position.
You can find this information in the article, but the lede does not reflect the article.
What is undisputed is that ever since Lebanese independence, both Syria and Lebanon consistently said it was Syrian -- and even after Israeli occupation of the Golan Heights said so -- until the Lebanese-Israel conflict of 2000.
I'm happy to rework the article and add sources.
I would add the following information admidst any other sourced material. and then correct the lede to reflect it:
Since at least 2000, Lebanon has claimed a small portion of the Syrian territory occupied by Israel in 1967 and administered as part of the Golan Heights. The territory, known as the Shebaa Farms, measures 22 km2 (8.5 sq mi) and lies on the border between Lebanon and the Golan Heights. The United Nations and Israel consider the land to be Syrian territory occupied by Israel.[1] Syria has taken contradictory positions, but, with the exception of some statements in 2000,[2][3] has generally agreed that it is Syrian territory occupied by Israel, as Syrian President Bashar al-Assad reiterated in 2011.[4]
From the founding of the Syrian Republic in 1946 until at least 1978, all affected parties (Syria, Lebanon, Israel, and the United Nations) considered Shebaa Farms to be Syrian territory, as opposed to Lebanese.[5][6][3] Shebaa Farms was considered part of Syria from 1946-67 and represented as such on maps of the time, including both 1949 Armistice Agreement maps and Syrian and Lebanese military maps.[7]
When Israel captured the Golan Heights in 1967, Shebaa Farms was still considered by Lebanon, Syria, and Israel to be Syrian territory. After 1967 and throughout the 1970's, the governments of Syria, Lebanon, and Israel all considered the territory to be Syrian and under Israeli occupation.Cite error: A <ref> tag is missing the closing </ref> (see the help page).
In 1983, Hezbollah was created and over time, began to insist that Shebaa Farms were under Lebanese (as opposed to Syrian) sovereignty, eventually citing the occupation of Shebaa Farms as one reason for its continued attacks on Israel.[8]
On 7 June 2000, the demarcationBlue Line was established by the United Nations in order to ensure full Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon, according to UN Security Council Resolution 425. After Israeli troops left Lebanese soil, the United Nations affirmed on 18 June 2000 that Israel had withdrawn its forces entirely from Lebanon, in accordance with Resolution 425.[9] But by this time, the government of Lebanon had changed its prior view and disputed the United Nations certification that Israel's withdrawal from Lebanon was complete.[10]
In 2000, some officials at the United Nations claimed some (unnamed) Syrian officials reportedly supported Lebanon's claim that the Shebaa Farms were part of Lebanon and not Syrian territory.[11][3][12] But its Syrian President Bashar al-Assad confirmed in 2011 that both Shebaa Farms and Kfar Shuba Hills were Syrian territory and not Lebanese.[13] Syria has never officially declared in writing that the Shebaa Farms belong to Lebanon or any country other than Syria.[14]
For decades the United Nations and the international diplomatic community have requested that Syria and Lebanon take steps to determine the exact boundary between them with regard to Shebaa Farms and officially register the demarcated border with the United Nations. Both Lebanon and Syria refuse to do so.[15]
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In sum, this is a complex issue. It deserves an accurate portrayal.
If you will allow me to weave in the properly sourced material I have above, I will do so.
I am also asking wikipedia to undelete the 1966 Lebanese military map that has been on this entry for many years which explicitly showed Lebanon claiming the land was Syrian. That map was quickly deleted when I posted it on the Golan Heights on the grounds it was "redundant." Zero agrees the map is relevant and should be on wikipedia, and I have asked Zero to work with me to undelete the map. If you believe that the map should be allowed, you can join in the request.
If we all act in good faith, we can tell the truth with proper sources and not make unprovable false claims. I am happy to work with Zero on this. But inadvertent inaccurate sourcing of material (such as claiming the SANA link says anything about Shebaa FARMS, as opposed to TOWN) should be avoided.GreekParadise (talk) 23:14, 30 September 2024 (UTC) GreekParadise (talk) 23:14, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
^Timur Goksel, a spokesman for the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL) stated: "The UN is saying that on all maps the UN has been able to find, the farms are seen on the Syrian side.
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Done - excluding (ATGM) acronym, I can't read the Hebrew source, but the English source doesn't mention it being an anti-tank guided missile Adam Black talk • contribs 02:38, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
